I give up. Djay Pro goodbye

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  • Updated 2 months ago
The time has come.

I’ve always been hesitant to switch from Djay Pro to Serato but I made the jump a few weeks ago and am more than happy about it (current set up, MacBook Pro, late 2014, Pioneer DDJ-SX3)

Mind you, I have been a beta tester for several major companies preciously and come to this conclusion after having given the software a solid practical run in a studio and predominantly live scenario.

The thing that broke the camels back for me were these main issues:

1. Lack of communication. You guys aren’t Apple. You are a little software company that is highly dependent on practical feedback from and having a report with its users.

The standard reply from you in 99% of the time has been:
‘I will try to elevate it to the team’

Serato and others have public betas. Guess why? You can tell by their implementation that its software is dead on the target which i feel you guys do not have. Which then again trickles down to vage answers and cumbersome solutions.

2. Reliability. I cannot trust this software to work reliably. Which, I get it, it’s software, duh. Shit crashes. But it’s that super intense insecure feeling that Djay Pro gives me: from the ongoing Spotify issues (I don’t care whose problem that is, and no, Serato doesn’t have any SoundCloud streaming issues over here) , the sync getting out of whack every once in a while, to total hang on hard disk streaming tracks or hard crashes.

(Due to the finicky nature of potential hardware related issues (USB hubs, cables, controllers), I reduced and tested this with a base set up of just my MacBook Pro, an external Scan Disk USB SSD, and switched between controllers (Pioneer DDJ-SX3, Reloop Terminal Mix 4 and Rellop Mixtour) after fresh restarts.)

During all this time Djay Pro crashes on average during every 3rd Live 2-4 hour session.
Rekordbox every 15-20th
Serato crashed once. In a year.
Nuff said.

3. THIS is another big one when it comes to using the software IRL:

I can use Serato on my laptop without ever touching it. Solely from my controller.

I can shift/expand/change the beat grid, change to decks 3 & 4, see by how much the tracks are transposed, change fx parameters and everything else without ever needing to put my hand on the trackpad once

4. EQS, EQs, EQs!!! The fact that this has been brought up in major ways for 4 (FOUR!) years already without any effect has got to be on of the lamest statements by a software company adding a ‘Pro’ to their app name.

C’mon guys, this really isn’t rocket science.

You are Germans, with access to some of hippest cats in audio coding from there and its Eastern European neighbors. Does your product manager have a personal vendetta going with improvements of sound quality? Or does he have a tinnitus with a dip in the mid-high frequency range?!?! Your EQs and especially the filter is unusable on a big system. I have to dip the mids and the highs whenever I perform a high filter sweep to not permanently damage to people on the dance floor’s ears!!

5. Library/cue points/beat grids across multiple machines, including mobile devices. I am not going to into detail. Let’s just say it simply never REALLY works properly. Which is due to the fact that you have chosen the proprietary saving of a separate djay Pro library indexing opposed to the original file tagging one.
Any of the slightest shifts of cue points and beat grids turn a live set a nightmare, which means on loading a new track that has been analyzed and synced on another machine/device I always have to spend a good 30-60 seconds of fine tuning while I’m running out of time with the running track.

WHY would you want us having to do that?!? Are u simply not aware of it (as we have only pointed it out about 200 times in the past or are there actually sadistic elements in play? :-)

6. Subscription model: I get it. But for that I’d want top notch support, features and reliability.
Serato is tied to a license or a $300-2000 hardware controller. For anyone who uses their tools professionally this is a peanuts investment for reliable job performance.

So, as much as I initially and still like the software, it has come to the point where, regardless of techie stuff I simply ENJOY playing sets with Serato rather than dreading a crash or get bugged by the same ol issues over and over again with Djay Pro.

It’s been an interesting ride. Please know that this is my German way of constructive criticism. Not trying to discourage you guys or call you ignorant.

In all fairness I also have to point out that Djay Pro has some unique features that I enjoy creatively and are an excellent example of what you guys are capable of (Track analysis, some of the FX, library access (minus the practical short comings as to graphic design/layout), startup times.

I am still hoping for the best and who knows. Maybe there’s going to be a release next week that will blow all of our minds. Until then, be well and have fun spinning! Good vibes and let’s not forget it’s about the music! :-))

Here are some live mixes I did with Dj Pro.

https://soundcloud.com/triggerstroem/...
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Louis Oberlander

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  • relieved

Posted 4 months ago

  • 3
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Juan Perez

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This was originally designed for an iPad and it works flawlessly with iPad Pro 2nd Gen Reloop Mixtour 4 on booth at&t and Verizon
Tmobile blocks streaming with
Spotify using DJ pro
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Louis Oberlander

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I get it. Then don't offer it for laptops in the first place:

And that still leaves points 1 & 3,4,5,6 :-)

Apart from that:

try recalling and saved loop cue with your Mixtour and have it on the beat with the other track. Good luck trying, it will always be out of time (compared to simply recalling a cue and it being beat matched).

So much for flawlessly :-)
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DanM, Employee

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Hi Louis,

First up, I'd like you to know that your candid and constructive feedback is very much appreciated. The development process relies heavily on feedback from our users, and most new suggestions communicated with us make it on to our bug/feature tracker to be considered and progress monitored. But when we work to implement a new feature (such as with the EQs), we want to do it right, so sometimes core changes take a while, and we have to ensure they work correctly with the rest of the app.

Just like other DJ app developers, we do have a beta programme for macOS updates. It isn't something widely publicised, but we have a growing team of testers that we've approached to work with, and we're looking at ways to nurture this as well. We'd appreciate getting your input and feedback as a beta tester if you're interested. Just contact us via the support email to participate. We have also worked hard over recent months to improve product support, and we are doing the same with the forums.

With regards to the crashes, we always work hard with users that contact us to try and find a resolution. Stability should be paramount with DJ software, even if it's only a small percentage of our customers affected. Of course, there will always be a complex set of factors that can cause issues, but it's always been a minority, and we tend to find the root of the cause.

The issue with cloud saving of cue points is complicated too. Every DJ app saves track info to a database, though some have the option to also save some info to the ID3. That database should be fairly portable, as is the case with djay.

Lastly, we know that subscriptions won't be for everyone, but the move on iOS to a subscription-based pricing model has been key to providing the ongoing resources needed to continually develop the app, as well as add new packs for video,the Sampler, and the Looper.
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Louis Oberlander

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Just got the reply from support that you don’t accept any new beta testers anymore. :-(
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DanM, Employee

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Who did you speak to?
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Louis Oberlander

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Jennifer. She just got back to me today. Thank you.
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Louis Oberlander

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Hi Dan!

I appreciate the feedback from you and the team. Also thank you for seeing my post as purely constructive criticism more than anything. if anything the frustration stems from feeling that the app is about 90% from being on par with the other big players. So we are truly talking about the final bits and pieces here :-))
I am very well aware how laborious and sometimes not obviouslly easily changeable things can be that seem easy to implement to the outside user. Much appreciated.
I’ll shoot you guys an email.
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annie dmn

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I have sent an email a month ago, pointing out 7 different issues with every detail needed, and yet after a month, NONE of those issues where solved, with the pending excuse that any info I've given was sent to technical team for review. I am STILL waiting... Today I sent an email letting Jennifer from the support team that I'm moving on to another app. Her reply was just sorry, without giving a damn update on what's going on with the info I've given and waited so long...

Through out our communication, the support team was asking questions on things I had already answered through my emails. Which this felt like they were just buying time or, honestly, mocking me...

This app sucks, and I'm gonna mention it every time I'm given the chance
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frank Cook

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Hmmm.

What 'Big' apps are you referring to?

This is the best iOS app available. Flawed and all - that is an actual fact. Good news, better days ahead!

As for djay Pro 2, it has come a long way, and isn't suffering from any greater software sins then the so-called big guy's.


I run all the main non-tablet DJ Software - 

Serat0 - I cut my teeth on it. Very buggy! No usable for all events.
VDJ - It is the best IMO, but not my personal favorite. I dislike the UI.
Denon Engine - junk! 
Traktor - who - what now - out dated proprietary crap! 
Algoriddim - the most innovative platform on the move up, to the very top.Spotify Integration is making it King - the rest will come.

These things aside - you did bring to light some important issues pertaining to communicating with Algoriddim. 

For me, way too salty, based on all the red herrings contained in your post.

djay Pro 3, will likely be the new big kid on the block to beat, across the board.

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Terry Jackson

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serato and traktor are way ahead, the only thing djay has going for it is spotify.
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frank Cook

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Traktor - spoken like a man that hasn't used it lately, or only mixes EDM. Garbage for scratching. 

Serato is buggy too. Just check the forums over there.User Interface suck though...

When im hired as a turntablist I only use Serato. Everything else - djay2 Pro... I like the UI - I like the automix features for wedding progressions like guest arrivals, cocktails and dinner. I even activate automix during reception dances to I can go to the restroom and take a 10-minute break twice a night. 

If your just into EDM - well anything will do. Nothing easier to mix than EDM. and for that Tractors quantizing features are more than adequate, but last I check, doesn't have any dynamic beatgrid capabilities. Which makes un usable in my eyes... and behind the times.

Keep an eye out for djay pro 3...

PS I never have any issues with djay pro 2 - not ever and i have around 60-gigs a year, of which i use this software for no less than 40 of them.

There are things about it that piss me off, but there are things that piss me off about all of the DJ software's. Unless I'm going to write my own, I need to keep my mouth shut and just wait until the next version or update is released. Or like you, I can jump ship, but wait, I do all the time. I own all of the different software packages (not Traktor anymore) and I move between them based on which one is best suited for the performances that i have been hired for. 

None of us should just use 1.

If you are going to attempt to live with just 1 and have it be Serato, we will be seeing you back here real soon, confessing that the grass isn't in fact greener over there, just longer.

They're both great!

Again, I will give you this, the communication from these guy's does have room for improvement and there is measurable need for that to come about sooner rather than later. And I think that is what has really set you off in here...
(Edited)
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Louis Oberlander

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Frank, I’m happy you’ve had such a stellar experience with Djay Pro.
Unfortunately I can’t say the same when it comes to stability. Which is ultimately one of the most important elements for a performing DJ.

The four issues that make me have to either restart the computer or the app are:

1. Hangs when loading and skipping within a track on a slow internet connection. While I am aware that this is only partially Djay Pro’s shortcoming it should not be allowed to access Spotify in that case. As the hangs will force the app to ultimately stall.

2. Sync engine running out of sync randomly.

3. Sync buttons stop working/can’t be re-engaged.

4. Hard spinning ball stalls or crashes.

I’ve checked all of these while monitoring the console. There are no hardware or system related elements. I’m running a super lean, dj only dedicated System( MacOS High Sierra).

The other element that I consider very important are the elements that create a comfortable level of usability, speak, hands off of the laptop and having everything accessible via a controller.

Also legibility. Have you ever tried doing a gig in a holiday location with bright sunlight all around?

I don’t think that a generalized ‘one is better than the other’ works as we all have different needs.

I’ve made a few points in my original post that I think need a prioritized approach. That’s all.

And yes, agreed that we should be able to work with all the tools we have but I also prefer being so in tune with them that I don’t have to ever think but purely rely on muscle memory when it comes to which buttons to push and rather concentrate on the crowns and the choice of vibe. :-)

Happy djaying.

We’ll get there eventually:-)
(Edited)
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tchesco

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Bye!
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daveberzack

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Thanks for a very informative and well written post. If nothing else, spurring the devs/mods to actually respond is helpful, because I've had my doubts any of them even look at this forum. I've posted bugs and interesting feature requests, and generally don't get so much as a response. I love the Spotify integration and cross-platform features. I'm not a pro DJ, so I'm comfy playing with something more casual. But paying for an ongoing subscription, I'd expect better, more responsive service.
(Edited)