Inconsistent BPM analysis across djay platforms, esp with Drum n Bass tracks

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  • Updated 2 years ago
I am getting BPM analysis issues, it seems with drum and bass tracks in particular.

Djay on the Mac seems to be analysing some DnB tracks at 2/3 time, most of the tracks should be 80-85 BPM or 160-170 BPM... but I am getting some at 127 (if my maths is correct that is in the middle of the 2 BPMs they should be).
Also I am getting different analysis results across djay platforms... it seems only the Mac version is the problem child, whilst the i-device versions are fine.

Example:
Roni Size - Brown Paper Bag: djay Mac = 127 BPM / djay iPhone = 85 BPM
Track is taken from same iTunes library in both cases. 85 is the right result.

There needs to be some sort of reset / re-analyse feature on the BPM.
Why would different platforms of the app get different results?

It is very hard to mix a track analysed in 2/3rd time...
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Jaba Wookie

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Posted 7 years ago

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witchdoc64

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Ok....I tried to reply to D Rey and it obviously didn't go thru......I'm not worried about the bpm's. I've got ears..!! The problem is (in detail) I have an alesis io dock which doesn't support idj anymore but I still use the dock for other apps. I bought a numark idj pro and every time I run idjay my songs have to reload as if they were never played. Library shows song title genre but no bpm. So pretty much when I jump to another song on the fly now I have to wait for it to load.!! Missing breaks or chorus of songs where most djs introduce the next track. Now. Do you have an answer for this.?
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D Rey

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I have an iDJ pro as well and I have had happened what you described once. I think it was after an update though. I don't know if you have seen the option to pre analyze the songs. I do that every time I sync to songs to my iPad. And only once has it had to analyze my entire library like none of them had every played. If i were you I would try this. Are you running iDjay 1 or 2?
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witchdoc64

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Idj1. Where is this option.?
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D Rey

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Pretty sure that's only djay 2. Download that one man it's way better.
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D Rey

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Another thought I had was if you have djay on your phone and your iPad, turn on the cloud sync data on both. That will keep cue points and everything up to date on both devices as well. Just a thought.
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Duc Anh Lam Viet

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Same to me.
"What a Shame" - RL Grime (75 BPM in Djay on Mac, but 94 BPM in Djay 1.6.4, on Iphone). The correct BPM is 75.
Many song wrong BPM in Djay on Iphone (i use ip4, ios5.1.1).
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Warren

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High Precision Analysis is not supported on an iPhone 4. This would explain why it's correct in the Mac version but not on your djay 1 for iPhone.
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Roger Peerbooms

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So, what is the current status of this imperfect Beat analysis?
Thank you for sharing this with us!
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Bill Shillito

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It seems to me this problem would go away if there were just a manual entry field for the BPM. That's the big feature I'm still waiting for them to implement for djay 2. That way if you KNOW a track is 180 bpm, but the analyzer puts it at 90, or 179.6, or 120, you can just override it and say "trust me, this song is 180 bpm."
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jssrdesign

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This seems like the most robust solution to me, and I find it very hard to understand this feature is still lacking. I work with hihat/top/percussion loops which I know are all 128, just let me enter the number already. *sigh*
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Taisaiah Rios

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I know right. I test it with present tracks and my own tracks and still I get the bpm out of sync on the best work. Phillip fry: "Fix it. Fix it! FIX IT!" lol
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Arnaud Mariat

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I've been read the solutions to that problem proposed by users here, but some won't work. For example, manual entry won't work because 127 bpm (as written on beatport or anywhere) isn't accurate enough. For sync to work, it must be 127.11849248 bpm.
About the one who said "let's go back to real DJing", unfortunately, we're not using REAL turntables here, so if the track is not perfectly synced, we don't really have a way to rectify by accelerating of decelerating the disc. So we're forced to have accurate bpm.
The only solution that could work in my opinion is the AVERAGE tap function. I've been really wondering why this function isn't set this way, because you can't be very accurate between just two beats. It seems that the system does calculate an average number, but it's too easily influenced. Like if you miss one beat, it'll change the number, so the track is desynced very quickly. I think that if we tap the beat of a track during like 32 beats, an algorithm must be able to analyse this correctly !
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Bill Shillito

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Who says manual BPM entry would have to be restricted to being an integer? There's no reason someone couldn't enter 127.11849248 in the BPM field. I'd wager you only really need two decimal places, personally, but who knows.
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Arnaud Mariat

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Ok, but how would you guess such a accurate number ? You can guess a track's bpm is 126 by tapping, or if you see the number on the website where you downloaded it, but it will never give you more accuracy than that...
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Bill Shillito

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I don't guess; I do the math myself. I go into an audio editor, find one beat toward the beginning, find one beat toward the end, count how many measures (and therefore how many beats) there are, and from this data calculate the BPM:

BPM = 60 * NumberOfBeats / (EndTime - BeginTime)

(I'm also a math teacher by the way. :P)

But since I know I can calculate the BPM to a high degree of accuracy, it's frustrating that I can't feed my calculation into djay2. A competing software, DJ Player, allows the user that input to two decimal places of accuracy (which is plenty), and I would have switched over to that by now if it didn't have this skippy sound issue when I try to connect it to my Numark iDJ Pro.
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Arnaud Mariat

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Well yeah, in that case it could work well, you're right !
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Warren

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Hi Everyone,

We're collecting more test songs for beat analysis. If possible, please send us more sample songs or post a comment below with song title, artist, etc.
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Bill Shillito

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Here's one: Fighting for Freedom by StripE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v55rk...

It took me about 3 minutes in FL Studio to verify that this is 143 BPM, on the nose. djay 2 analyzed it as 145.4 BPM.

Manual BPM entry would let me fix this in a matter of seconds. :)
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Bill Shillito

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Another one: Tears for the Time by kors k vs. L.E.D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MImwj... (Not the best quality, but I have a higher quality version if you'd like.)

The track is exactly 148 BPM. djay 2 analyzed it as 148.1 bpm. That extra .1 BPM makes a LOT of difference.

Another issue, by the way, is that the "set grid" resolution is way too small. If I set my cue point at a certain point and choose to set beat 1 of that grid to that particular time, it should be set TO that time - not slightly before or slightly after. That happens on this song:

http://i58.tinypic.com/amaxd5.png
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Morris Bates

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Blind Faith Loadstar remix, Chase'n'Status
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Danny Hogan

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Solution;
Load song
Press "Tap"
Press "Restore"
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Warren

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OK, we'll look into this song. Just curious, are you sure that the song really has exactly 143.0 BPM?
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Bill Shillito

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100% sure. I originally found the BPM by loading it into FL Studio, and I just now opened it in DJ Player (http://djplayerapp.com/) and set the BPM to exactly 143.0 - worked like a charm, flawless synchronization.
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Warren

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Alright, thanks!
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Bill Shillito

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Any new updates?
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Taisaiah Rios

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I tried tapping myself. No solution there. Needs a manual beat sync feature similar to Tractor dj
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Taisaiah Rios

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I notice a bpm offset when chopping and mixing tracks in wave form

song example: Evil Needle-Drive
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Warren

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Thanks for your feedback. What exactly do you mean by "BPM offset"?
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Taisaiah Rios

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I see a severe to mild beat matching offset when I mix my music ranging from hip hop to dubstep to synth and there appears to be no way to manually correct the beat match or beat tracking error. This makes syncing tracks together on automix sound horrible to be honest. Please try to add a way to manually and accurately adjust beat tracking to resolve this. Thanks
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Lee Bearton

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I'm having this same problem with lots of tracks since the last December update. For example, my version of Clean Bandit Real Love seems to count five beats to a bar on the accapella start to the track, so it can't be mixed over anything with a beat, it just runs away. Same with a vocal part of another Clean Bandit/Jess Glynne track, Rather Be. Better Than Yesterday by Sidney Samson and will.i.am has weird beats as well - like it can;t work out where the four-beat is - so I cannot mix this over anything now. Was perfectly OK until I had to reload the track due to an problem with iTunes - that's all sorted and the track is exactly the same, but now DJay can't analyse it properly.

I LOVE the DJay app and used it loads. Sadly it is becoming unusable due to these problems.
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Taisaiah Rios

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Likewise with emenem -headlights. The track shifts offbeat when mixing in midsong
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Uncool Marcool

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Example track from me:

Caribou - Can't do without you (original version not extended - playing from Spotify using DJay Pro on Mac)

I believe this track should be 128bpm but it is incorrectly calculating at 128.5bpm. Even when I tap to get the correct tempo (which took me quite a bit of tapping) I noticed that if I keep pressing '3' with loop set to 32 from where the song kicks in with full drums etc so that the playhead marker jumps back 32 beats at a time I notice the grid points calculated by the program are still drifting slightly. Not sure why - either the 32 beat jump or the auto-sync grid is not truly conforming to 128bpm even though I have now set this tempo. If it was drifting consistently one way it would suggest I have set the bpm incorrectly but it drifts backwards and forwards.

I hope that makes sense but it should be apparent if you recreate as per the above.

I would personally like a full manual override option on the bpm of tracks so that I can enter it via the keyboard rather than the tapping option. If I have manually overridden the bpm, the grid should then conform exactly to this from whatever grid/start point I set.
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Jeremy Sammons

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I've been using DJay since the beginning; I have been mixing for 6 years at a Salsa club every week. Needless to say I don't do much mixing with Salsa or Bachata, although you can...Djay is pretty good at analyzing a track's BPM, but if the BPM changes from measure to measure slightly, as it does with any non-computer music, like Latin music, it's only going to be an average.

But for EDM, usually it's quite good, and my kudos to the developers. I love love love this app. Some songs do have problems...specifically, Drum & Bass songs often have issues. Often very complicated or unusual tracks are miscalculated. It would be nice to have the ability to reanalyze, or as others have said, to manually enter the BPM.

Here's a few that it gets wrong:
My apologies for posting iTunes links, but the developers can go get these tracks for testing.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/cou...
(Off by probably 4-5BPM)

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/lic...
(This is off just a bit)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvkUj...
(for whatever reason it just can't get this right)

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/sau...
(This is a fun one... Should be roughly 87BPM or 174BPM or something similar. But not 129)

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/in-...
(This one is definitely off by probably 2BPM...)

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/gin...
(This one is also off by a few BPM...it's close, but it's definitely off)

Good luck, developers...I Love the app! I use it almost every day! Seriously!
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Jeremy Sammons

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i will keep posting these...the bpm for this is incorrect:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/tus...
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Adrian, Official Rep

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Thank you, Jeremy, we'll use these tracks for testing!
Does the problem persist using djay Pro 1.1.1?
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Mister Tuur

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Djay Pro on iPad also halves the BPM when it gets the right tempo from Spotify. That could be a pretty solid hint for the algo IMO. ;)
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Wouter Bast

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What's the status of this problem? Because I still have the same problem, even with the latest version.
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Bill Shillito

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I think it's apparent that they have no intention of adding manual BPM entry. Every reply has been "oh, we'll make our algorithm better rather than implement a much more simple solution."

Guess it's time to switch to DJ Player. They've had manual BPM entry for years now. You'd think that would be one of the first things they'd do.
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ehoa warewhare

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Update may have addressed this.
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Mix Master G

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If you set your beatgrids/bpm and (hot) cues in Rekordbox you can use our djay conversion utility to convert them to either version of djay (version 2 or Pro) on both platforms (iOS and MacOS).

That way your cue's and bpm's will be consistent thoughout your collection and platforms. We used to have the same problem but found a way to override the "analysed" bpm value with the Rekordbox bpm value.

In the documentation of the utility it's explained how you can transfer your cues from one platform to another. However for BPM values that trick only works if the cue list has been created with our utility. djay's way of storing them doesnt transfer the bpm values (they are in another metadata database).

the djay Converter Utility is at
https://sellfy.com/p/emUY

the video tutorial is at
https://youtu.be/F25-5Fdw8XY
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Audiogus

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Tried DJay2 on ipad. Lots of amazing potential! I would not hesitate to get Pro and the Sugar Bytes FX if I could simply manually set the BPM. I am exporting my own stems from apps like Egoist, Beatmaker3 and Blocs Wave with very specific bpms, but a solid 98bpms becomes 162.4bpms with no sane way to adjust it. Bizarre seeing the lack of response from the devs on this.

A shame as this could have been an amazing tool to use in conjunction with with these apps if I could merely specify the bpm manually.
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Shoonas

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This problem still exists. My dnb songs are off-beat and the wave forms are unclear. When is the next update? Did I pay over 50€ just to be able to play songs from Spotify with my controller or actually use it as a dj software? The beat grid is completely off.