HID Phase Issues

Djay PRO 5.6.1

Phase (fw 9.0)

MacOS Sequoia 15.7.3

Using DJay Pro in DVS with a Reloop Elite mixer, Reloop RP-7 turntables and Phase in HID mode

I have two issues:

  1. Firts one is the same as reported in Sync Drift Issue in BPM + Beat Mode with Phase and DJM-S7 and I believe is still present in 5.6.1. To be honest I believe this is not restricted to DVS and Phase but it was happening as well with a DDJ-GRV6 I had before taking this DVS setup. Sync mode is BPM only. I didn’t see this getting significantly better with recent updates.
  2. I’m not able to set up the right RPM for Phase in Djay Pro. My Phase is setup to spin at 45 RPM
    But when I connect it to my DJay PRO I have to set the speed on the turntables to 33 RPM otherwise the BPM of the songs are increased. To put it simply, it works at 33RPM as it should at 45 RPM.
    When I connect Phase to Serato it works properly at 45 RPM.
    I’m reporting it just because it’s a little bit weird and It is not a big deal and I can live happily with it as it is but if it can be fixed it would be even better, I’m not experienced as a turntablist and the lower RPM affect my scratching skill a little bit. Maybe I’m missing a setting somewhere but I’m digging into this for weeks now and if I’m wrong I’ll still be happy so thank you so much if you see something I’m not doing correctly.

Thanks, let me know if you need more details.

F,

Hi @Francecorre, welcome to the Community!

Regarding Issue 1, can you confirm if your tracks are Dynamic BPM or Straight BPM? If you could share a short video, that would also be helpful. Thanks!

Regarding your second issue, djay currently only supports 33 RPM.

i’ll try to replicate the issue and follow back

1 Like

Sounds good. Thanks @Francecorre

Wait a minute, I had to reset my mind to give you a meaningful response, your answer made me think.

With the DDJ-GRV6 I had sync drifting issues (that I remember) with (human played) dynamic tempo songs, even tho the dynamicity of the tempo was very little.

I can understand that DJay might drift in this case but I can also see room for improvement here. I’ll try to give concrete examples gathering more evidences if I’m able.

Getting to my actual situation anyway, with a DVS, I can even use the same exact (electronic - constant tempo) song, but the tempo it’s not going to be straight anyway, as I manipulate the control vynil (with Phase or not) and the tempo might have fluctuations. Or I might have an instrumental and an acapella and scratching with it. I believe that’s the issue with DVS, the tempo it’s not going to be completely straight anyway.

I don’t know if what I said makes sense to you. One suggestion maybe could be to have a second press of the sync to align the down beat as it works with simple sync in Serato. Because even if it’s easy to resync with turntables, manipulating the speed of the platter could not be the best thing to be done here, as it will make the issue surface again, while pressing the button would avoid changing the tempo but resync it. I’m just thinking out loud.

Anyway, thank you so much for the quick response and the great work you are doing at algoriddim, as I said I’ll try to provide better cases for you to analyze. It will probably take some time.

As far as the second issue is concerned, do you have any feedback?

1 Like

You’re welcome. Thanks for the additional info @Francecorre. If you can capture video of this it would help to communicate what you’re experiencing to our engineering team.

Regarding your second issue, as I stated above already, djay currently does not support 45 RPM - only 33 RPM is supported.

I must’ve missed the reply about the second issue. Thanks.

I’ll follow back for the first one, if it takes me too much time and you close the thread, I’ll open another one when I have a straightforward, replicable, issue.

Best F

You’re welcome. Sounds good @Francecorre

Here I am :slight_smile:

I spent several hours in the last few days testing the sync within DjayPro. I have to say I still feel like this part is still probably the weakest in DJayPro as in almost all the other areas I feel way better in DJay Pro than in other softwares. A lot of weird stuff happened while I was trying to test all the possible cases but in almost all of them I couldn’t find a deterministic way to reproduce it constantly.

While this is something that can be seen both as a good and a bad sign, as a software developer from my experience, this is happening most of the time when the code had several developments on top of a very old, usually not so well enginered, structure. This is the only part of DJay that gives me this feeling and, whether it’s true or not, I don’t want to offend anybody as I love DJay Pro, but I feel like Sync is not completely consistent or reliable.

Anyway, I based my analysis on this article How does sync work? | Algoriddim Support and this discussion Understanding Sync / Sync Master / Tempo Reset [Win / DVS] - #10 by Slak_Jaw and tried to do my best to test all the possible scenario.

I came to the conclusion that actually there is no way to avoid drifting using BPM Only Sync. There is no specific bad behavior I want to highlight but there are so many cases where it doesn’t work completely fine even tho I can’t report them.
One thing that I found very confusing, maybe fixing this can be enough already, is that sometime the tempo shown in the GUI is the same for both left and right deck, while you can see that are different. Maybe just improving the precision of the tempo shown can be considered a solution when the tempo of a track is changing. At least it will look more consistent. I’m talking about differences that should be considered relevant, I would not consider a 0.05 bpm difference something to be shown.

In any case I moved forward adjusting my Sync preferences to BPM and Beats and kept testing. Here I found something interesting. Most of the time this setting can be a solution as the beats are kept aligned. Even tho I don’t like this way of doing things it’s probably the best compromise, still I found an issue with the Master Tempo.

I’m talking about this scenario

SCENARIO 3: One Deck Playing

  1. By default, the actively playing Deck is the Master. So the Deck that is Playing through the master output and the audience can hear (ie. Channel Fader and Cross Fader Open).

  2. Pressing Play and the Sync Button on either Deck 1 or Deck 2 will Sync it to the one that was Playing first. For example, Deck 1 is playing through the main speakers and Deck 2 is paused with a new track. If you press Sync on Deck 1 or on Deck 2, Deck 2 will Sync to Deck 1 because it’s already playing and is considered the Master Deck.

  3. I believe the first Deck remains the Master Deck until you stop playback and load another track onto that Deck.

  4. In this case, the other Deck that is now actively Playing with the Channel Fader Open and Cross Fader side Open becomes the new Master Deck.

Sometime it would be good to decide which deck should be the Master Tempo as this would solve most of the issues I had but I wasn’t able to make it work.

I mapped a key for each deck to set the master tempo explicitly and pick whatever deck I wanted but it didn’t work.

The sequence is

  1. 1 Deck playing.
  2. Load a song in the other Deck.
  3. Sync.
  4. Pick the second Deck as the master tempo.

In this case the Master Deck is still the first one and there is now way I can decide to switch the master at will as DJay only changes the Master Deck with the channel fader.

Did I miss something? Am I doing wrong?

Please let me know

Best Francesco

Hi @Francecorre, in your sequence above, Deck 2 is not playing so even if you try to use the MIDI command “Set Sync Master”, it doesn’t do anything. With djay, a non-playing Deck cannot be the Sync Master.

If you instead follow this sequence, you should be able to force Deck 2 to become the Sync Master:

  1. Deck 1 playing with both channel faders up and crossfader in the middle (Deck 1 is the Sync Master by default because it is the first deck playing through the Main Output)
  2. Load a song on Deck 2
  3. Press play on Deck 2 (Deck 2 is currently the Sync Slave Deck).
  4. Use the MIDI mapped command for Deck 2 → “Set Sync Master”.
  5. Now Deck 2 is the Sync Master.
  6. Press Sync on Deck 1 and note that Deck 1 BPM changes to match Deck 2 BPM as expected.
    a. The easiest way I’ve found to remember this is to always press Sync on the Deck that you want to be the Sync Slave. In other words, press Sync on the side that you want to have the BPM change on. So, if you want the Deck 1 BPM to change and match the Deck 2 BPM, press Sync on Deck 1.

Regarding more decimal places for the BPM, there is an existing suggestion topic for this: Bpm option to have more decimal places

Thanks for the feedback!

I’ll try this later today and let you know.

You’re welcome @Francecorre

Hello @Slak_Jaw I’ve tried again.

I’m sorry unfortunately it didn’t work.

I’ve made the video to show what I’m doing.

I don’t know if I’m doing something wrong but to me I’ve followed your sequence. Explanation ongoing is not the best but it’s really not easy to record a video, explain and also doing stuff at the same time if you’re not accustomed to it, sorry about that but should still be clear.

Best

Hi @Francecorre, can you please do a screen recording instead and make sure that the mixer section of djay is visible? Also, can you change the tempo with tempo faders instead of with nudging?

The DJ mixer is not going to be visible even if I show the section as the Reloop Elite is working as an external mixer so you won’t be able to see the cross fader. Volume fader were all up all the time.

I already tried to do the test using tempo faders of the turntables and it was happening the same, I ended up recording the video nudging instead of using tempo faders just for conveniency but the behavior was the same.

Let me know if I still need to record the video or if the above additional information is enough for you.

Understood. Please capture a screen recording to compliment your previous video. Thanks!

Hi again @Francecorre,

  1. Can you please confirm if you are using the latest v1.06 firmware for your Reloop Elite mixer (Reloop Elite - Reloop)?
  2. Also, please confirm that you are using the (built-in) MIDI mapping for the Reloop Elite and not a custom edit?
  3. With your DJ hardware connected to your Mac, please share a screenshot of your djay Settings…>Devices.

Thanks!

HI @Slak_Jaw

I opened the Mac to do the video recording and I saw your notifications.

Here you have the answers

  1. I’m actually using a beta 1.07 firmware as I’m testing Neural Mapping on EQ knobs (great news, it works :slight_smile: )

  2. nope, do you want me to send you my mapping?

  3. Here it is

Do you still need the recording? If it helps I’m willing to do it.

Thank you so much for your interest, I truly appreciate it. One thing that made me fall in love with DJay Pro is one of the best Customer Support I found in this world so kudos to you and the whole team.

Best F

1 Like

Thanks @Francecorre, can you please test sync using the (built-in) MIDI mapping and firmware 1.06? Thanks!

I’ll gladly do that (also because all this stuff was still happening before I updated the mixer and did the mapping) but you have to give me a little bit more time, it’s not going to be a quick test as I need to do some extra work

On the video recording sorry but I have a question, I was practicing without a specific purpose and happened one weird thing that I mentioned in an earlier message and I wanted to record it. Since I wasn’t prepare for that I used it as a chance to do a test video recording with built in feature in DJayPro (latest version 5.6.2) but what I got was a video with the sound but a blank screen. Is that what should I expect and I need to record the screen with a different software? Do I need some codec? Is that a bug?

Please let me know so I can provide you with a recording of the test you asking me.

Best F