Is there limits to the number of files (songs) DJAY can handle?

[Rob_H]

Hello,

First of all I have a large library of music - over 50 000 songs. I have so far not been able to get DJay to be able to recognize my entire library so I can easily search for a song when I need it and utilize the library I have. Unless I am doing it wrong, why can I not simply point the file manager at a directory and add my directories of music? I have my music split into a handful of directories for organization…. Most dj apps you can assign a directory and the s/w will scan that directory for any music files. When I am dj’ing and searching for a song I want to do 1 search to find it - not have to try 5 different directories to figure out where it is….Who has time for that will a full dance floor??

Secondly, I tried separately importing the songs by pointing DJAY at the actual files by utilizing “Select All”. This works for smaller directories but I tried one directory (which is not even near the biggest) it has just over 10 000 files and djay basically crashes an cannot select that many files? Has DJjay reached its limit an cannot even scan those files in? If so - that’s brutal! I hope I’m missing something here…. I even tried on the iPad Pro to see if I can go into ‘files” app and “select all” in the same directory in question - and YES it can. So I have to believe the problem or limitation is in DJay. When I DJ - I want to have all my music with me and ready to go. I purchased my music for years and I am not streaming. Some places there is no wifi or cell network at times.

I wish I could just point at my external drive like every other program, it does scan, creates a database - so in the future you can quickly and efficiently recall / search for any song.

If anyone can please offer a solution or insight I would greatly appreciate it! Thank you.

P.S. - I also am used to dj’ing a lot by “play count” as my first go-to. I really wish this would be implemented to sort by Play count.

Thank you!!

Rob

[dj_romy_fi]

I will try to explain the difference of music source and the dj pro metadata library.

I will do printscreens with old versio so that I won’t mess up my current dj pro library.

So I deleted the dj pro 2 folder and started the app.
Now my dj pro metadata library is empty.

No songs in library.

[dj_romy_fi]

Now I start to configure my music sources:

[dj_romy_fi]

Now I want to analyze some songs

BUT!!! This is the thing most of you forgot: files are analyzed but not stored to your dj pro metadata library.

as you can see there is two search functions:

• media library search
• local file search ie. searching files from your music source i.e hard drive
  Now I need to manually create (there are many ways of doing this) a dj pro metadata library playlist.

In this example I dragged and dropped songs one by one to the playlist I want to create

And now my full dj pro medialibrary contais all songs of all dj pro media library playlists.

And now I can start to create my “live music library” in the way I want based on those songs in my media library.

This way I don’t mess up my file structure in the sources : playlists on tidal, files on hard drive folders etc. I just work with the data stored in the mediadatabase (djpro medialibrary file).

So now back to the new djpro AI, what this means that I can create a medialibrary playlist, which contains songs from Tidal, files from hard drive (and from all of my music sources)

And now … finally I can create smart playlists for artists/bpm’s/keys etc… the “filtered way” I want
to look and find next song to play.

And true: there are always limitations in software (and with hardware) what you can do. Some softwares can handle better 100000000000 files at once, some much less.

You work with the tool you have and learn the way it works and learn limitations of it. If the limitations restrict the way you work: change the way you work, request improvements or change the tool.

And note also : there are a lot of different brands for cables, ssd’s etc. Try different ones or upgrade ssd to m2 drive. Some might work better.

And you can always reorganize your hard drive content.
There is no optimal way, you just need to figure out what works with you and works with your workflow and tools.

I like to have something like

• 90’s (all songs of 90’s) (1st lvl directory)
  – dance (2nd lvl directory)
  – hip hop (2nd lvl directory)
  – house (2nd lvl directory)
• 2001-2005 (all songs for 2001-2005) (1st lvl directory)
  – dance (dance 2001-2005) (2nd lvl directory)
  – hip hop (hip hop 2001-2005) (2nd lvl directory)
  – house (2nd lvl directory)
  …
• 2022 (current year) (1st lvl directory)
  – dance (current dance hits) (2nd lvl directory)
  – hip hop (current hip hop) (2nd lvl directory)
  – house (2nd lvl directory)

Sometimes I might go even deeper with 3rd lvl diretory like separating house to vocal/proge/soulful/disco directories…

[Rob_H]

Thank you for your detailed reply dj_romy_fi!

I believe I have tried what you are demonstrating but one exception is I believe the double search is a bit different on the iPad version of DJay Pro Ai. On my MAC I did see the double search line - both in the file section and in the collection - but not my iPAD Pro. BTW - I am attempting to run an iPAD pro 11” 3rd generation along with an Acasis 10-in-1 hub with a build in USB C M2 nvme SSD drive containing just a over 50 000 songs split into a handful of directories. My directories are not broken up by genre or year of music. I never had to do that before because my previous DJ software I have been running for years is able to do that by the MP3 tag info data and it has always been quickly searchable.

I am able to add smaller directories to my library but as soon as went to a larger directory - everything froze and the program crashes. That was only a little more than 10 000 songs. Honestly, that not even that much and I believe a Pro DJ program should be able to read scan that in.

I am simply trying to get DJay to be able to read and import my entire library as the iPad would make a great system along with the hub if it only would properly import everything. I also wish there was a midi command trigger that would bring you quickely to a search line to search the library in its entirety.

However, did make me wonder - is it at all possible that I could try and build a Mac library and then use the same library on the iPAD - if I’m using the same external drive as the music source?

I have also wondered if there was some way on iPAD to import everything into Apple Music - but t will not let me do that while keeping the msuic source on my external drive (which I have to do as the iPad is only a 128 GB model and the music take up over 256 GB alone. I believe you can do this on a Mac but not on the IPad.

I’m gonna go try some more and see if I can find a way. Thank you once again for your insight and I will read again what you wrote more closely once I can sit down at my desk and focus better.

Rob

[dj_romy_fi]

One thing we also forget too often: the design principles of phones and tablets.

1. The design philosophy of phone and tablet operating system is that apps replaces everything.
2. The device should be so easy to use that you don’t need to use terminal/command line tools, there should not be needs to use finder or windows explorer kind of tools to manage files and folders.
3. All your files are stored to the cloud and you use cloud storage throug an app.
4. you use cloud stored files through different apps : like using photo editor apps

So yeah dj’s are in marginal position here : we would like to use locally stored files or external drives, but the devices aren’t designed to handle big amount of files and data. Windows, linux and macOS is the thing if you need to handle big amount of files, folders, data etc.

[Rob_H]

Thx for comment.

All that being said - I for some reason, did get DJAY to add over half my files into “my collection” by creating multiple playlists each linked to each directory I have on my external usb c ssd drive/hub. They were even searchable. It was finally looking promising, I’m not sure why it wouldn’t do the same thing before…

The problem I am having now is it scans in several directories successfully, then 2 things negative are happening;

1. All of a sudden one directory will have most files available to play/search/use after scan/import but the bulk of the files in that directory are greyed out. I then realized # 2 thing that is happening.

2. External drive is suddenly disconnecting/ lost from DJay. It is fully visible and operational in the “file” app - so it can’t be the iPad Pro (I don’t think). Only way I can get all the previously scanned file to show up again and work is to quit DJAy, disconnect and reconnect drive. Restart DJay and it will be back and works - but greyed our files still grey!

I started thinking maybe I had a bunch of protected files (drm or something). BUT - I started over a redid everything, starting with the directory in question and the directory and songs worked fine - no longer greyed out. A little while later as I’m going through directories - same thing happens with a different directory being scanned in, drive access disappearing in DJay and it happens all over again.

I Think there might be a bug in DJay that is causing the drive to disconnect and not remain stable OR maybe DJay encounters some small think and ends up disconnecting / losing the drive!

This is so frustrating because I felt like I was so close if it weren’t for these little bugs/flaws/anomaly’s.

Has anyome else ever encountered this? Please comment. Thank you!

Rob

[dj_romy_fi]

Questions:

• how do you connect your devices?
• what hardware you have
• what kind of usb hubs
• which hardware has it own power adapter, which goes through usb hubs

If the operating system iOS decides that a hardware consumes too much power and needs to put into sleep mode and to be disconnected, there’s nothing what other apps can do.

But for me it looks like bad usb cable or usb hub which doesn’t give enough power to all devices…

Just an idea: even if the operating system sees the external hard drive, it might have already disconnected it / put sleep mode as djpro has detected, but the drive will be reconnected as soon as you open up iOS file app, but djpro haven’t noticed that the drive is alive again.

[Rob_H]

All Hardware is Brand New.

I am running an iPad Pro 11” (3rd Generation).
IPad Pro is Mounted on an Apple Magic Keyboard which provides the option of an additional USB C input for charging only (to my understanding - NOTE: I am not trying to use this for data anyways.)

iPad and DJay s/w is all current and up-to-date.

The external drive I am using is an ACASIS 10-in1 USB C hub with built in NVME SDD Bay. (Awesome little hub - several YouTube vids about it)

ACASIS: Swappable High-Speed SSD Storage & 10-In-1 Hub, Docking Statio -...

I am using an external 100W power supply because the power issue crossed my mind when I was configuring this setup.

ACEFAST PD65W 3 Port(Dual USB C+USB A) Fast Charger Set for USB C Laptops, Cell...

I have the 100W power feeding the hub which also powers the iPAD. NOTE: I have also tried simultaneously connecting the iPADs own power adapter to the magic keyboard’s USB C power input. Regardless 100W should be tons of power (I think)
EDIT NOTE: I forgot to mention the power supply is 100W total, but I am plugging into the “C1” port which is the 65W port.

Mounted in the NVME SSD bay in the ACASIS hub is a Samsung 970 EVO Plus M.2 1TB NVME SSD.

Also connecting drive with a brand new Spigen USB 4 Cable.

[USB-IF Certified] Spigen USB 4 Cable for Thunderbolt 4 Cable, 100W Charging...

The drive can run a bit warm at times - I have tried to assist this even though it may not be an issue by placing the drive on a laptop cooler fan to assist in keeping it cool - especially when I was trying to import files and putting it through some demand.

You can notice in picture where you can see the greyed out files? I believe this is what happens when the drive disconnects (if that’s what’s happening). Those files are unavailable. This has happened during other attempts and then been successful on the next attempt.

Another issue is when scanning the same directory a second time I notice DJay doubles the amount of files (file count) in the Collection under “Music” tab. You would hope it would be smart enough to sense the duplicate and be able, to not add the same file that didn’t actually add the first time but count it as 2 files even though it is unavailable??? DJay…???

Sincerely,

Rob

[mitchd123]

Guys really good discussion, and helpful on searching. I’ve DJ’ed for years but I feel like I’m still in learning mode on DJay Pro and the discussion is helpful. The search on Mixxx is flatter like Google, where on the search bar you can type things like: BPM:120,genre:disco I know DJayPro does a better job at mixing, so I am working around the shortcomings, and will try to leverage your tips above.

That ACASIS Device looks sweet! After lugging vinyl for years, it’s simply amazing to see how far tech has come.

One other piece of advice for professional DJ’s, is always build in redundancy and worry about theft, by playing the “what if game”. What if this component fails or is missing. Hardware and Software both fail, and people steal stuff. If you show up to the important gig and you laptop decides it doesn’t want to boot…you’re stuck DJing off your smartphone. Or as you’re wheeling gear in, the waiter walks away with your laptop…you’re stuck trying to do gig on a smartphone. Or the opposite, while you and your roadie are putting speakers up on stands, someone does a smash and grab on your van and steals your laptop. Never leave gear unattended. I’ve done some breakdowns in bad areas at 2am, and have had folks handing around the van, wondering if they were going to jump me.

[Rob_H]

Hey mitchd123! Just wanted to note that the Acasis hub is indeed a very nice device and offers very useful porting for something like an iPad Pro (what I’m trying to use it for). Nevertheless, I am experiencing disconnects of the drive from DJay. It does not seem to disconnect from the files section (from what I can see). I ran the Acasis hub live from my MacBook this weekend without any issues for a very long wedding gig. I’m starting to think the problem once again is with DJay. I did have better success running an older and slower USB C drive with DJay - but still not perfect. I was not able to trust DJay fully live - but it just ran as my emergency backup system. I tinkered with it a bit. It did run ok for what I tried but I was never able to get DJay to recognize and scan in my whole music collection. It works better using the iTunes playlist method - but it SHOULD be able to work flawlessly with external drives if it is to be classified as professional dj s/w app. Still trying to rule out why I had more disconnects on the Acasis drive. need to do more testing. Just figured I’d note a bit of a warning.

Rob

[mitchd123]

@Rob_H

ran the Acasis hub live from my MacBook this weekend without any issues for a very long wedding gig. I’m starting to think the problem once again is with DJay. I did have better success running an older and slower USB C drive with DJay - but still not perfect. I was not able to trust DJay fully live - but it just ran as my emergency backup system. I tinkered with it a bit. It did run ok for what I tried but I was never able to get DJay to recognize and scan in my whole music collection. It works better using the iTunes playlist method - but it SHOULD be able to work flawlessly with external drives if it is to be classified as professional dj s/w app. Still trying to rule out why I had more disconnects on the Acasis drive. need to do more testing. Just figured I’d note a bit of a warning.

THANK YOU! I appreciate the heads up. Just a guess, the USB service may be trying to spin down the solid state device (which doesn’t spin), or power down a USB device that is not in use. As a troubleshooting step on windows you can disable the USB power down, but Mac’s tend to do their own thing, regardless of how you set them. I have a MacBookPro that continues to dim the screen regardless of how I set it. Also check Acasis for a firmware update. Good luck with it.

[dj_romy_fi]

One issue might be what format the external hard drive is.

Even though Apple says the Ex-FAT, FAT-32, HSF+, and APFS formats are supported, I would also try how the drive behaves if it’s formatted to these formats.

First I would try to use APFS, then HSF+ and not even trying to have a drive which could be used outside apple ecosystem i.e ex-FAT or FAT32.

[NathanielAlgo]

Hi @Rob_H,

Thank you very much for posting to the community.

This was probably one of the best discussion threads we’ve seen in awhile and I cannot thank @dj_romy_fi enough for his incredibly thorough replies as this is (in some cases) a very difficult topic to cover and explain.

There is not much else to be said in this post other than the following:

• While djay doesn’t have a “cap” or “ceiling” on the amount of songs you can link in the app; having djay try to search, index and analyze multiple thousands of tracks can be very resource intensive on the iOS operating system alone.
• A strong rule of thumb in tech is “The better the hardware, the better the performance”…This includes iOS hardware especially when it comes to running an app like djay in which we are taking virtually all of the features from the macOS version and running it on hardware 1/20th of the power as compared to its Mac hardware counterpart.
• Even though we may not respond immediately to threads like these in an effort to see how a discussion like this unfolds, we are still reading every comment and logging every piece of feedback so that we can implement these changes into djay for a better user experience.

Thanks so much again everyone. Have a nice day!

[DJAceMoney]

Thanks for the helpful comments in this thread @Rob_H. Also, appreciate the last post from from @NathanielAlgo. I too am running into the same problems as @Rob_H. I have two questions for @NathanielAlgo.

1. Regarding the hardware and processing comment (iPad vs MacBook Pro). I am using an M1 IPad Pro which has similar “processing” specs to my M1 MacBook Pro. Obviously it does not compete with the MacBook Pro M1 Max or Ultra. It appears that I can support a much bigger library on my M1 Mac than the M1 iPad Pro. If this is how your product suppose to work I am OK…but just want to understand your comment regarding more processing power the better as the MacBook Pro and the iPad have the same processor.

2. Can you share the library sizes (range is fine) you used to test DJay with the iPad Pro and MacBook Pro. This would set our (DJs) expectations on what your software can handle. It will also prevent me (and other DJs) from spending days trying create libraries which may not be possible. This information would also help me assess what scenarios I would use DJay vs other DJ Software.

To be clear…love the software. However, setting up a new DJ Software Library is a lot of work. I believe we want to know that we can get to the end of that library setup process with reasonable parity in comparison to the other DJ Software players.

Thanks