Sure, although this has been discussed in other threads, which were closed as “solved”.
First of all, DVS is very unprecise with small speed changes.
Try changing pitch on one turntable slightly and you will notice that
a. the BPM value doesn’t change at all, and
b. despite this having been put off as more or less a GUI issue in the past, the actual BPM doesn’t change as well. Which makes beatmatching a lot more difficult than on competing systems like Traktor, Serato or even Mixxx, as the input needed is much more brutal (for the lack of a better word).
The other problem is that you can’t really circumvent that issue by using sync, because when you activate sync, all speed manipulations on one deck are automatically transferred to the other deck. This behaviour does not change depending on the BPM only or BPM and beats setting. Also, it takes far too much speed change for the option to disable sync when scratching or jumping to cue point to kick in, which makes this option useless for beatmatching with files where the grid does not match absolutely perfectly.
All of these problems do not occur in other software I use or have used.
The sync issue described above also didn’t occur in earlier versions of DJay (I think the change came with the same version that introduced flexible beatgrids).
I am using the ios and macos versions, most current ios version on a 10th gen iPad, and sonoma 14.7 on a m3 pro macbook pro, so it’s not a cpu issue either.
Djay is on version 5.25 currently, but the problem is present at least since 5.0.
On the iPad the version of Djay is the most current one as well.
My main audio interface is a traktor audio 10, which I have tried with the built-in phono preamp, with line input and the turntable’s preamp, two adjustable external preamps, fresh styli and different pickups (Shure m447 and concorde pros), so it can’t really be that, especially since that combo works perfectly in traktor. I have also tried rekordbox, serato and djay timecode. Makes no difference.
Hi @jimbobatzke, thanks for sharing these details. I’ve moved this to it’s own topic so that we don’t lose the conversation and can keep this all organized. I’ve also reformatted your paragraph a bit so it’s a little more easy to digest.
I will be passing this onto the engineering team directly, but I think it would be super helpful if you could record a short video highlighting the issues you have described above. This will really help to communicate things to our engineers so they can try to replicate your specific issues. Once recorded, please upload it to your Google Drive/Dropbox, enable sharing permissions, then share a link to the video here. Thanks!
Here it is. I have also compared the 5.x behaviour to the behaviour in Pro AI 4.1.10, where everything behaves more as I’d expect it.
I hope that helps.
Edit: for some reason dropbox doesn’t seem to play ball, so I also uploaded the video to youtube as unlisted (so not indexed for youtube search, but playable with link)
Hi @jimbobatzke, thanks for sharing this, unfortunately, DVS feature has a lot of issues, I have posted several ones, but doesn’t fixed at end of team of Algoriddim. It’s seem they are too young for that, they focusing controllers, not oldschool guys like you and me, and those ones who use DVS. We are not in their spot
please check this video, have you experienced something like this? As I watched your video, I’ve discovered some similarities as mine.
Thanks for the quick turn around on the videos @jimbobatzke. I will share this with our engineering team to see if they can replicate the issues and offer any suggestions. Thanks again!
Just to let you know: I have just tried Phase in HID mode and DVS mode - excactly the same behaviour: When the decks are synced, manipulating the tempo on one deck affects both decks simultaneously. Without sync, manipulating one deck leads to the tempo of that deck not returning to the same exact speed (even when the turntable is quartz-locked). It does not do any of that with a midi controller (obviously).
I really don’t understand how DVS support can be so messed up. I have used DJDecks beta versions back in the mid-2000s, and even that worked better. (Yes, I am that old ).
I have to say, despite all my aversions, I am very tempted to get Serato. All the scalping and lack of iOS support aside, at least it works properly, and while I still use Traktor actively, their stem implementation is quite disappointing. I really, really want to go full Djay for all the good features it provides, but this is actually a deal breaker for me personally.
No. Traktor does not do it that way, Serato does not do it that way, Rekordbox does not do it that way. All three are smart enough to keep BPM in sync, but recognize minor changes due to beatmatching. Mind you, we’re talking BPM only here, not BPM and Beat Sync. Even Djay didn’t do it that way in 4.x by the way - this behaviour started with 5.x. You can see that in the video I posted above, where I squeezed in the behaviour in 4.x as well (at the end).
Still sounds iffy to me. Surely if you’re using sync then you shouldn’t be making (or needing to make) manual adjustments. Sync is supposed to be taking care of that. Likewise, if you want to beatmatch manually by nudging back and forth then disable sync.
Uhm… Those round wheel-like things on basically every MIDI controller… what, do you think, are they for? Have you seriously never encountered tracks having to be nudged/matched despite the grids on each track being perfectly aligned? Sorry to burst your bubble, but different songs sound different, and if you have thousands of them in your library, you will run into having to nudge and match away from the perfect beatgrid for it to actually sound matched.
And, no offense, what sounds iffy to you, while you are absolutely entitled to your opinions, is not the point here. The fact, is, all other companies have it working for years and decades, Algoriddim was mostly there with 4.x and then broke it with 5.x. I have reported that, and the rest is up to Algoriddim. Plain and simple.
While we’re bursting bubbles, I thought you were using turntables? This is a thread about DVS right?
So we’re not talking about jog wheels. Even if we were, the function of sync in most DJ software is to keep both tracks aligned, without intervention. Jogs or turntables.
Syncing accurately depends on the beat grid. Therefore, if the grids are aligned perfectly and you’re using sync, then there should be no need to nudge anything.
I don’t know about you, but I’ve got over 40 years of DJing experience. I know how it works.
I’m not disputing that there may be a problem with Algoriddim’s implementation. I’m disputing your comments about how sync works.
Since the Fluid Beatgrid feature was introduced, I have never needed to nudge the platters with any of the tracks that I play, and I play mostly Disco and 80’s Funk much which were recorded with live drummers,
I do occasionally have to make minor adjustments to the beat grids even after Djay has analysed them but once that has been done, they stay in perfect Sync.
I can’t say the same for DVS as I don’t have that set up. Although I would have killed to have had a Sync button on my SL’s back in the day
If you don’t like or understand the way I want to be able use my gear and software, that’s your problem, not mine. Mine is the choice between Djay and a competitor. AlphaTheta, Native Instruments and Serato disagree with you on how sync should work with DVS, and up to 4.x, apparently, so did Algoriddim Djay. The solution to something not working properly is not arguing why one shouldn’t need that anyway. It’s fixing it. Luckily, the Algoriddim staff appears to be much more open to that concept than you are.
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