Fluid Beatgrid suggestions and improvements

The purpose of this thread is providing the team at Algoriddim with examples of tracks that can point to improving the FB AI.

Please post your software version number with links to publicly available tracks or create an e.g. Dropbox share so others and the devs can reproduce the results.

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First example: DnB banger Baddadan (the short version)

It’s only a minor issue, and the straight grid option solves it perfectly in this case.

Sharing this because any AI improvement should theoretically improve grid detection in general.

On bar 4 the BPM drops and DJAY compensates the tempo in bar 5 (or maybe it’s actually the other way around?). The same thing happens in bars 8 & 9, 14 & 16, 27 & 28 and 37 / 40 / 42 / etc (further ahead too, you’ll get the idea).

Bar 40 is probably not as simple, as it appears to be a drum fill sample that is not perfectly tempo matched. In this case the AI should probably neglect it, but I understand you surely don’t want that in case of old funk and disco. Maybe the ‘straightforwardness’ factor / ‘quantize index’ of the track can be a hint for the detection algorithm. I mean, looking in context it’s obvious the track is not a loose / live / shaky tune. :wink:

DJAY 5.0.2 (Mac)

https://tidal.com/browse/track/305948743

All this technical stuff. Just do an update with an option where we can pick between fluid beatgirids or the old beatgrids.

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YES. this :arrow_up: :arrow_up: :arrow_up: :arrow_up: Some sort of legacy beatgrid or bring back grid start button.

Here’s an example from my straight BPM by default suggestion topic of fluid beatgrid changing for an electronically produced track with vocals playing over it: Option to use straight BPM by default - #10 by gravitybass

Thanks for creating this topic @Mister_Tuur! I have shared it with the engineering team.

https://tidal.com/browse/track/336687432

Greyhound by QZB. The second part of the intro has tempo fluctuations over multiple bars when the drum track stops.

DJAY 5.0.4 (Mac)

James Brown - Let The Boogie Do The Rest

This track has a slow tempo for the first section, then the beat stops completely and there’s some random chatter. In the second part of the track, the tempo is much higher.

The tempo change is detected, but the grid is out of sync. Correct in the first part, but between beats in the second.

It doesn’t seem possible to align the grid to one section with disturbing the grid for the other section.

Loading this from Tidal (the 7:22 version) gives me an incorrect grid / tempo and downbeat.

Mine defaults at ~90 BPM but it’s around 60 in reality, so incorrect. Tapping the tempo helps the detection and saves the day though.

Edit - the following seems to be improved in an update: There’s no way to get DJAY to get the second part right though. If you manually tap you can get the tempo right, but never the downbeat (as it takes the first part into account too). It also resets the tempo from the beginning of the track when you do this.

Nice find!

Tested on 5.1 (Mac)

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https://tidal.com/browse/track/14061767

Earthquake by Labrinth. Straight grid, but the AI gets the intro wrong by about 25 BPM. When the beat drops after 26 seconds it’s okay.

DJAY 5.1 (Mac)

https://tidal.com/browse/track/139087980

Home (Whomi Remix) by Mashk - only the downbeat detection. Just thought I’d mention this one as it actually starts with the downbeat so it’s strange to see the glitch.

DJAY 5.1 (Mac)

I second the fact that we need the option to select default straight vs fluid beatgrid because personally, before the update, the straight beatgrids were very good at staying on beat and on first analyzation, being already aligned perfectly on the grid. With this new fluid beat grid though, it definitely hasn’t been as accurate (especially with ones that don’t have a tempo change). There were only a few tracks in my library however that had a tempo change and I always wanted a way to adjust the beatgrid to match that.

So overall, I love what you guys have done with this fluid beatgrid, that is something I always dreamed of. But I personally believe that it makes little sense to have the default option for the beatgrid to be fluid when I feel like 95% of songs out there have a consistent tempo. I’m very aware of the songs in my library that have tempo changes so it wouldn’t be hard for me to remember to go through and select those to be fluid, but it makes a lot less sense to have everything default to fluid and for me to have to go through and find all the ones without tempo changes that the AI just messed up on.

You may “feel like” that’s the case, but it’s the other way around.

Modern technology allows music made recently to have a very accurate fixed tempo, but recorded music has existed long before that technology, hence there’s far more music that does not have a steady fixed tempo.

Anything with drums played by a human. Anything recorded on analogue tape. Even early drum machines, sequencers, digital tape - the list goes on.

That’s definitely true. I do know a lot of older 60s - 80s songs where they seem to slowly shift off the grid probably cuz like you said they didn’t have the modern recording equipment and all that and were playing / recording live.

I think my point was that I believe that for the modern DJ scene, most people are playing those tracks that I was talking about and not the older recorded ones.

But I mean either way Algoriddim should probably just have the choice of which one it defaults to to please everyone.

Agreed. Choice is good.

Which is the point of this thread. Please post examples that don’t work.

I’ve seen a lot of comments about the system, but we need to be sure that it’s not simply user perception, as many of these observations turned out to be not (entirely) accurate. OTOH if we can prove the system is buggy, (an option to default) to straight would make sense to implement.

Thanks in advance for sharing.

Hello everyone, I’m happy to report that the BPM fluctuations with certain songs has been improved in the latest djay Pro 5.1.1 release.

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The first example has been solved. Nice!

The other examples behave as before. Just FYI.

Not sure if it’s related to the new version, but I got a working grid without anchors.

By default the BPM is still off, so start by tapping. Then you can adjust the grid by shifting (moving) the downbeat to the right. This also solves the grid after the break, although it is at half tempo. Shouldn’t be a problem when mixing though.

Edit: or you can first set the downbeat and tap for correct tempo detection. This works (now?) too. If you then put an anchor at the downbeat after the break you can also double the tempo and the grid is flawless as far as I checked.

I’ll have a look later. Thanks!