The Future of Algoriddim djay

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46

I respectfully disagree @Wirelessdj.

I think we should not forget Algoriddim (just like any other company) does not have infinite ressources.
So, we cannot just say “we want everything”, and “everything is priority one”.

Scrolling thru many posts, I see consistency in some drawbacks with DJay :

  • Many “supported” controllers, but less than a handful are really integrated A-to-Z, maybe only two or three max (Reloop Buddy, Mixtour, and perhaps DDJ-FLX2 (not sure)). No “Full Size” controller.
  • So, what’s the point of having a huge list of “half integrated” controllers, when you will end-up disappointing customers.
  • For really stronger Djay adoption, we need full integration, and reliability.
  • And because we cannot have it all, this means reducing the controller list, while going A-to-Z with a shorter list.
  • I reckon I am kind of in disagreement with what I currently perceive as being the business model of Djay : Focusing on “occasional hobby customers”, who are not willing to invest much in their first gear (entry level controllers). Because a significant part of these customers are also those who will want everything in a free version. And another part will upgrade gear sooner or later, then feeling lack of integration with Djay, and possibly switching to other software. None of these paths are good / sustainable for Djay.
  • Last thing : Every amateur DJ, even very low level will look at YT videos from Djs playing on higher gear. So ultimately, everybody wants to do that. And if Djay doesn’t follow the curve (accompanying its customer on higher gear), it will loose them (attrition). Not good.

Fwiw, my own experience is the following : I started with a Reloop Buddy and a DJay subscription. Then I had issues with the sound quality of the Buddy. I upgraded to DDJ-REV5. But now I am disappointed with the integration with Djay. The problem is that I have now invested $1000 in gear. And changing gear wouldn’t change anything, because other controllers have the same half backed integration issues with Djay. So, I am questioning whether I should switch to another software. And the main thing refraining me from doing this is the Apple Music integration, currently.

I humbly think my own experience is probably similar to many other customers. And this is not good for Djay. We need full integration with some controllers (even at the cost of a reduced set of controllers), and reliability.

We cannot have it all. Asking for everything, without concessions, won’t help Algoriddim to sort priorities, imho.

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47

The truth might be : the hw vendors might not be interested to have additional compatible software.
Or to get the better support they might say “pay extra annual fee and then you have licenced support to open all features of the hw. We are happy to help you with annaual 1 000 000 $”.

Or for example iPad (iOS) need class compliant device, if hw vendors feels that “no we are not intersted as there is already full support for macOS”, then there’s not much anyone can do to solve the integration.

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48

What’s the integration problem with the REV5?
I thought people were pretty happy with the REV5/DJayPro combo.
Like this guy:

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49

What are disappointed in with the Rev5?

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Hello everyone, sorry for the delay.
As I said above, my disappointment with the DDJ-REV5 / DJAY integration comes because I upgraded from the Reloop Buddy. You see both controllers in the picture below

IMG_8698
IMG_86981920×1440 206 KB

So, I expected a pretty decent step up in enjoyment.
However the Djay integration is clearly lower with DDJ-REV5 compared to the Buddy.
Particularly since the Pad Mode buttons of DDJ-REV5 are not summoning the corresponding Pad Mode screens in Djay (Hot Cue, Loops,…).

This integration between Pad Modes only exists (currently) with the Reloop Buddy and Mixtour Pro.
There is currently no way to Map this in Djay. Meaning, on whatever other controller (including DDJ-REV5), you must touch the tablet to change this. Which is totally uncool. For this reason, I am actually not using my DDJ-REV5, hoping for Algoriddim to fix this.
But @Slak_Jaw has been asking for this for two years, and it is still not there.

And other point is one of the two specific key features of DDJ-REV5 “Piano Play” is not being mapped, contrary to what I heard from some users here before buying.
But this is something I can understand and accept. It is more of a specific feature. I don’t care too much. But I still wish I knew before buying.

Pad Modes shifting is something else. This MUST work.

There should not even be voting about this.
For me, Algoriddim cannot say “100% Compatible” when this basic and essential Pad Mode integration is not done at all. Djay has not even opened the mapping for this. We are stuck (for now). Nothing we can map about pad modes.

Coming back to the main subject (“Future of Algoriddim djay”), one of the key points is really to complete the integration with controllers, even at the cost of reducing the list.

Reloop Buddy and Mixtour are the two only ones truly fully integrated (as per @Slak_Jaw , thank you to him for being honest about this. It doesn’t solve the problem, but honesty is appreciated) .
For every other hardware, what Algoriddim does is a pre-mapping, like we could do ourselves.
But honestly, this is not what I call integration. This should be called “80% pre-mapped for your convenience”. And this leads to the point of reliability. When choosing from the “list of compatible hardware”, things should be said more clearly. It is even more important than screen integration.
I would much more prefer Algoriddim to complete the list of mappable functions (and jog-screen integration), rather that extend an infinite list of half backed pre-mappings.

Then… it gets worse :

  • The Buddy is not qualitative enough. The sound card isn’t good, and I am not talking about audiophile stuff, I am talking about very audible background (and yes I have good cables and power supply). Plus the new iPads are too powerful for the Reloop, it makes the volume of the Reloop unstable and continuously wobbling. So, let’s face it : the Buddy is clearly outdated. Reloop should at least issue a MKII.
  • The Mixtour has a very specific lay-out (no jog-wheels). Clearly not for everyone.

So, at the end of the day, what do we have as really 100% integrated hardware : Absolutely nothing !

This is not sustainable for Algoriddim. This can’t work, imho.

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51

If you agree about that integration between controllers and djay pad modes matters, please help the already long list of people requesting this for several years already by voting on this topic below :

52

I understand the issue of non-class compliant devices - and ofc there is nothing Djay can do about this.

But about the other point (talks between Algoriddim and controller manufacturer), I respectfully disagree with you. Accepting that this does not need to improve won’t help Algoriddim long term. User complacency ( = “It’s okay, it is what it is”) kills businesses.

I also have a bit of an issue with Algoriddim saying the problem is Pioneer/Alpha Theta not opening their gear. Indeed, starting from a given hardware price, Recordbox and Serato are free (with DDJ-REV5 for example). So… there is not much software money to expect here for this manufacturer. They can only benefit from an additional software company (Algoriddim) bringing their own client to their gear. Therefore, to be honest, I find this whole explanation lacking substance a bit.

There is a real issue with Agoriddim’s go-to-market (imho) :

  • Probably the best software (except maybe for library management),
  • But fully integrated with almost nothing (focusing on entry level market).

This two points are, imho, what is preventing Djay from really breaking out the next penetration level.

This is not sustainable as there is no point at having

  • The best stems, best beat detection, best iPad/Tablet lay-out… (all things that appeal to Djs/hobbyists who want high quality). Plus iPad integration instead of controller internal processing hardware seems the obvious way to go. Indeed, how could any controller manufacturer compete with the computing power of iPads/Tablets. So this is all very good.
  • But at the same only be compatible with low gear, and lose clients on their controller upgrading path. What is the point of investing so much in top notch software stuff, if it is not usable with decent gear. The balance is not right. Having new customers at the low end but at the same time suffering attrition on the higher end is not a good plan. First rule in business is to keep your customers.

Algoriddim should either do :

  • just-ok-software for just-ok-gear,
  • or invest in making its high-quality software compatible with higher gear.

But the current positioning cannot work long term, imho.

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53

You’re absolutely spot on @N_C

Have you ever seen a question, request, or bug report about the Looper or Video Transitions here?

I haven’t. Could that be because they work flawlessly—or because they’re rarely used?

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I will address several aspects:
Resources vs. possibilities - MIXXX is free and offers greater controller support - it is possible, you just have to work first and not take profits - you are selling a product or the possibility of receiving a product with promised functions that are not even available in some cases (instructions vs. reality)
Controller support - full support is not provided even for flagship advertised devices, and the market is not sleeping. Mapping should be a priority if you want to have more users - “not everyone has to buy a garden to eat the fruit” - it is worth taking a look at Traktor and doing your homework
Identical versions for Windows and Mac - and therefore other devices - if you provide the program’s usability functions, it is worth taking care of each platform to have users.
Playlist - Recordbox is popular, you go to the club without stress, you do not need to duplicate devices, no one will whistle at the performance. VR functions - either it is a PRO program as the name suggests, or a platform for fun - you can develop the function even indicated but the priority should be the stability and availability of the functions that DJs need.

Support - it lies and whines, please do not write answers without testing based on the instructions only with iOS, recording videos by users and sharing is also poor, and in the response information about forwarding to developers, there are many of the same topics without a solution closed - I think you do not realize what consequences it has - you lose customers / users.

Efficiency vs. Quality - steam separation - I will only refer to the Windows version, the quality is worse than the competition regardless of the power of the computer used, there is already software that uses the computing power of the GPU for division and does it excellently - it is worth working on the function as one of the flagships.
Freedom that is lacking - give DJs some slack, the software is hard to adjust to your own preferences - not everyone plays the same way (including MIDI mapping)

I think that the program has a future but it has to take into account the opinion of users and research the market even every day and work on its “child” because it still has a long way to go in development but without us it can be difficult, I already wrote in one post that you should add “BETA version” to the name if you intend to develop it at such a pace - this is my personal feeling when I have MIXXX, Recordbox, Serato, Traktor and VirtualDJ at hand.

I am waiting for effects worth this price :slight_smile: but not forever.

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55

DJAY Pro playlists should be synced across any device with the app installed and logged in. If they can sync hot cues they should be able to sync playlists. It is strange that it’s taking this long. I can’t imagine what the blocker is or how it could be something DRM-related.

Also, I disagree with stopping supporting so many controllers due to the fact the more controllers they support the more users they’ll get. Supporting the more professional controllers should be a given along with making apps bug free.

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56

If this is like most tech companies these days, it’s not dev but marketing that decides on the vision and strategy of the company.

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57

That puts you at odds with the “Right to repair” movement. The software world is full of mods and patches to add or change functionality – particularly in games, but also in other types of applications. And it has big implications for real world hardware – look at the people who invest hundreds of thousands in farm equipment, but have to let their crops sit unharvested because the manufacturer insists only they are allowed to fix problems preventing their equipment from working properly.

One way or another, threatening end uers who want to preserve their livelihood, whether it’s playing music in a club or growing food.

Look up “Streisand effect” to see the consequences of treating customers like enemies.

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58

I agree - looking at the contents of a database is not “reverse engineering” or illegal.

DJ software across the board is able to read and import data from other companies databases. There are also third party programs out there that translate and import/export between programs.

Generally the developers will choose to use an existing database format rather than “reinvent the wheel”. Atomix use XML for their database & settings files, and often suggest to users that they edit the files if required, to fix certain issues.

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59

Lots of really interesting opinions in this thread.

The business strategy stuff is important - but I tend to think that theorising about that can be a bit of a hypothetical. Customer retention has been mentioned a few times, and I think this is where the focus should be.

Right now, the thing that holds me back (I subscribed for a few months there) is library management. The poor implementation of tags (visibility), and lack of portability is the thing that drives me back to Rekordbox.

The issue there is that, whilst the playback side of DJay is peerless (analysis, flexible beatgrids, sync reliability and stems), the work needed to correct the flaws in Rekordbox is something that can be done away from a performance, or is a nice to have.

Constrastingly, the ability to seek through my music collection based on metadata is something that I would depend on during performance, and the lack of visibility over My Collection is a killer.

The filters are great, but I’m not going to be able to use that on the fly, as well as an eyeball over a somewhat larger list that displays my own extended tags, or even using some of the ID3 tags, such as grouping, for my own purposes when I can’t show them up on the tabular view.

Chris M (youtube) talks about this kind of thing in his video on Rekordbox Library management - paraphrasing “Tagging allows you to categorise your music by what it means to you”.

By not having better tools for labelling music, it’s blocking my ability to navigate my music according to my own tastes, and therefore my identity as a DJ.

I’m all for making using of the standard - ID3 - rather than creating bespoke solutions. But whats the point when I can’t see that in the interface.

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60

Bonjours moi j’aurai aimé que Djay sur IOS et Djay sur Android soit identique au niveau interface et fonctions et aussi retrouver le slip mode disponible sur les versions sur ordinateurs ! Merci et je vous félicite pour ce fabuleux logiciel ! J’ai quitté Serato et Reckordbox sans aucun regret ?

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hi
djay has the best system for working with tags , you just didn’t understand all the functions
smart playlists work perfectly and not one program implements what is available in djay
If we can figure out a way to get in touch I can help you discover the amazing world of djay smart playlists

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62

Hey there, I’d like that offer too. I know how smart lists work but to get the best out of djay linked in with Apple Music playlists. I’d love that training. Send me a private message and we can arrange something.

63

Pad mode integration is missing for the DDJ FLX4 ans DDJ FLX10 as well. It’s so annoying … they are just not providing this BASIC functionality, seems to be a design prínciple. Just don‘t unterstand the reason for this

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64

Respectfully, I admire your enthusiasm, but I don’t think you read my comment. I specifically mention that I think the filters (and by extension the smart playlists) are great, but that doesn’t help me in a performance.

I don’t want to create a smart playlist, just to provide some ideas on possible next tracks based on some constraints - that takes too long during a performance. I want to be able to categorize and break down my collection by generic constraints, and that navigate the lists of tracks in My Collection with metadata I choose visible within the list.

As an approach, this supports the idea I paraphrased from Chris M - that my music collection, and style comes from the way I think about music, and as such, the extensible nature of ID3 tags is invaluable, and something that is handled very well in Rekordbox.

Whilst you can load in filters in the My Collection Views, you cannot bring in extended tags at all, and even the filters only leverage the standard ID3 tags such as grouping.

If I’m wrong about this, I’d love to hear how it’s possible, but on IOS, you get just a few pieces of information about your collection - file, title, artist, bpm, and track length. This is woefully inadequate. Even on the MacOS version you are restricted to the defined fields, such as grouping.

Back when Vinyl was used - DJ’s everywhere would put sticky labels on their record sleeves with their own notes; some used coloured sticky labels to add more visual information - and this was when an average DJ could expect to have a few hundred records at best. Not having the ability to add metadata in an organised fashion, and view it when it’s needed during a performance, when many are leaning in to the thousands of tracks in their collection - I say it again - is inadequate.

The beatgridding in DJay Pro is phenomenal. It puts all the other companies I’ve tried to shame. However - this problem can be fixed before a performance if your willing to put the work in.

The options i have to organise my library in a way that makes sense to me, and helps me to choose the right music for the moment cannot be fixed, as it simply doesn’t exist in the interface. It honestly frustrates me somewhat given that manipulation and representation of metadata on all kinds of things, not least ID3, has been a feature of development libraries for literally decades.

And that is why having tried both, and having seen the commentary around the companies reluctance to advance their library management features - I am choosing Rekordbox.

I hold no grudge against Algoriddim for this, btw. It’s a tremendous application, and I do, and will continue to recommend it to others: hobbyists, that want to mix a few of their favourite records. For me personally, I’m unlikely to continue. I’ve unsubbed, but am still experiementing to see if I can find a way around these issues.

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65

I believe that improved library management (a more rekordbox-like approach) is definitely a work in progress. It must be, with so many users pushing for it. I am struggling with barely 3,000 tracks, and some have 20,000+, so I hear you — I suffer from this too. But after a year with djay Pro, there’s no way I’m going back to Rekordbox, given how the Algoriddim team works on improving their software — you wouldn’t believe how much you can influence it. Some things I personally asked for have already been implemented. Could you believe the RB team would do that? I really doubt it. Well, there are advantages of robust stability, easy categorization, and library management, so I understand that. For me, the effort has been really good, and I believe that in the next one or two major updates we will definitely see some improvements to the library workflow. Cheers!

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