Just be aware, downloading music from Tidal for commercial use is breaking the law. Please support artists properly by purchasing their music from a reputable (and legal) website.
Admin Note: topic separated from original to keep the discussions organized. Original topic and screenshot linked below for context and reference.
Where?
Never mind, I’m a u-tuber. My solo source of music videos - I guess I broke 16000 laws in that country u live in.
Not here to support illegality, but…
Point is: depends on which country one comes from. TBH, in my country I am yet to find a dj who doesn’t download tracks off youtube (and enhance audio quality in some by dubbing with better audio sources). People have advanced ways of getting quality audio, you don’t even notice a difference at all in club. We’re yet to have copyright laws enacted. Maybe that would change eventually - but then again, who would police clubs looking for dj’s playing youtube versions? How would they even know?
Why are you trying to excuse piracy?
There is also a massive question around the morality of doing what you’re doing, and not supporting artists who make the music.
Yeah, its called buying it from an official source.
@STU-C it all depends on (A)where you live, (B)what kind of dj you are.
Like I said earlier, song “Piracy” per-se is a relative term depending on which part of the globe one comes from. A regular dj in my country is NOT selling songs, nor do they get any pay well enough to warrant penalizing for anything related to where they got their song from. Not uncommon around our country to see a dj getting just transport refund and free drinks.
I believe if you’re dj’ing for part-hobby, part-fun, part random-hire, the point you’re making don’t really count. On other hand, if dj’ing professionally with regular high-pay hires and a life-time dedication with a reputation to name, and in countries where such laws are seriously in place, then yes, you’d probably be right.
On the topic of song quality - I believe we put that to a rest one week in a club: For an entire week hosted back-to-back battles between 2 sets fo dj’s: a guy whose music source was purely Xtendamix, and another guy who relied on u-tube - and they were both playing similar genres of the 2010’s - 2020’s. We asked club-goers if they noticed any significant differences in sound quality between the 2, and none could tell.
On the contrary, artists are happy to hear their songs being played in clubs. The first thing an artist in my country does when they release a song is share their youtube link to any known dj. Artists here make their money by being booked for performances, not necessarily by selling their songs…so the more their songs are played in clubs, the more likely they get popular.
It should count full stop, hobbies cost money and thats the long and short of it. If you want to play golf you have to buy golf clubs and pay to play, if you want to be a photographer you have to buy a camera and a computer/software to edit the photos. Djing is no different.
Just imagine this for a second, everyone stops buying music and just falls back on illegal downloads, no artists get paid for their work. Those artists then decide to quit making music and find some other form of employment, no music is then made… sounds great doesn’t it… not.
The quality is also objectively worse, it has been proven many times with science that the file quality is worse, not some randoms in a nightclub.
Just buy your music and support the people who make it, full stop.
We’re contextually quite distant apart, so we may have to agree to accept the disparity of opinions. I think you’re quite correct in your context - and we both are.
Hi @Julien_Apruzzese, @STU-C and @Armigo, I’ve moved your discussion to its own topic to keep the other topic focussed. Thanks.
Screenshot and original topic linked below for reference and context:
Unfortunately there’s nothing new here. Some people will list any number of excuses to justify what they’re doing. They know they shouldn’t do it, but they believe if they don’t get caught, there’s no harm done.
So apparently as long as you don’t sell what you’ve stolen, it’s OK to steal.
Hello everyone. I’ve made some adjustments above for clarity and reference for this discussion. Sorry for any previous confusion. Thanks!
At this rate, applying STEMs to a track, making an extended edit, cutting down a bassline, etc, and playing it out in a club is copyright infringement!
Let’s be realistic, guys.
No, it’s you who is being unrealistic by making that silly comparison. We are strictly talking about using 3rd party browser extensions to rip music from streaming services or YouTube. That music is the commercial property of the record label/owner and falls under strict anti piracy laws.
Trying to shoehorn stems into the conversation in some vain attempt at making us sound unreasonable only serves to weaken your already poor argument.
Support the artists by buying their music, the end.
Yes, let’s be realistic. Recording songs from YouTube or a streaming service is not legal. That’s the reality. Those companies or copyright holders are within their rights to take you to court.
Stems? Well there’s a reason why many streaming services don’t permit DJ software to separate stems. Strictly speaking you should not be altering the original copyrighted work either, by extending it, changing the bassline etc. without permission.
Playing your edit in a club is one thing, but some people sell edits, mashups, re-drums etc. on places like Bandcamp. Some people offer them for free on other sites.
Yes and the reason it’s $34.99 and not $9.99 like consumer sites is because they have the correct licensing/permissions from the copyright holders.
Same with companies like DMC or Mastermix.
I recall one story that Mastermix wanted to reissue a megamix that Ben Liebrand had recorded in the 90s and they had to remove one track from it because they could not get permission.
(oops, corrected my correcting to make it correct)
Exactly. Carry over from what they were doing at Beatsource.
Yes, this is a “reproduction” and, rightly, he ought to have permission. Not only was he reproducing the original work, he is a well known “company” that streams/sells his mixes online everywhere. His monetized digital footprint is ubiquitous, shows even by a simple google search. This exact mix he has posted on youtube too - monetized.
Without permission:
(a) youtube would pull down the uploaded mix for copyright infringement.
(b) Any such repeated attempts could lead to his youtube account being blocked because of evidential breech of terms of service.
(c) In a country where music copyright laws exist, he could be prosecuted (both civil n criminal) by the original record label.
This far we agree, because sharing/selling copyrighted material online is no longer confined to any particular country - could be arrested and extradited to the nearest country for prosecution within the right jurisdiction.
However; on the topic of
Buddies, this is NOT ILLEGAL in MANY COUNTRIES (read Swiss copyright laws, CoPA), i.e:
Private Use Exception: Users can make copies of works for personal, educational, or internal use
llegal Uploads: Streaming/downloading from illegal sources is generally legal for private use, but uploading or sharing copyrighted content, including via P2P networks, is prohibited
In my country the copyright amendment bill was thrown out of parliament twice b4 because of lack of contentious exceptions. It only got passed this month last week and it’s yet to be signed into law by the presidency.
The amendment includes all the exceptions as above in Swiss CoPA, including an explicit statement on dj use in clubs and venues, all of which are categorized as private/internal use.
Now, do you guys realize that youtube has a strict digital sniffing algorithm for breeches of TOS and copyright infringements? Yes it does, and that is why many accounts get warned and eventually blocked over time for streaming content or uploading dj mixes of copyrighted tracks without permission.
Based on this, have you asked yourself, why many users (and I say many with intent, I included) continue to download tracks off youtube and their accounts never get blocked? Watching a video on youtube is essentially having that video temporarily downloaded into a cache locally in one’s private machine. Accessing that cache and saving it onto one’s machine to watch later is not any more different from watching directly via internet. Youtube knows no distinction between who is watching, watching later or watching from a download. All they know is a consumer. This is the basis for which Swiss CoPA was arm-twisted to allow for many exceptions.
The only argument we can legitimately have here is the types of dj’s we are talking about:
A dj and producer? - yeah that guy must pay everything!
A tomorrowland dj? - yeah, him too!
A streaming dj? - definitely yes!
A club dj? Generally, hell no! Perhaps some countries have laws on music in clubs, then maybe yes
Hobbyst /Bedroom dj? Hell NO!
I started as a hobbiest DJ in 1999 and i was buying all my music then, from a record shop. So again your point is utter nonsense.
Earning money from DJing so they should absolutely 100% be buying their music from a reputable source.
Support the artists and stop triyng ot make excuses for crappy behaviour.
Yes!
FYI, back then all of us were! No vinyl, Sony Tape, compact disk, DVD or CD was free then. The 'internet of things" as we know it, was not yet developed, at least in my part of the world then. Youtube, for example, came somewhere around 2005, but quite few of us used it then due to tech limitations. I might have first noted youtube potentials around/after 2008 when I joined facebook, then I began youtube. But now the world has moved quite a lot.
Regular club dj’s in my country earn peanuts - i can bet 0% have an online subscription to any dj pools I know of. That’s why I placed them in that category of no pay - same reason our ammended copyright laws exempt them on that too
Haha I notice the more you try to defend your actions, the greater the word count. 
Especially amusing is the claim that illegal things are legal.
Stealing is one of the oldest crimes on the planet. You may be familiar with the biblical commandment “Thou Shalt Not Steal”. It applied then. It applies now.
Note it does not say “Thou Shalt Not Steal Unless You Live In Certain Countries”
It does not say "“Thou Shalt Not Steal Unless You Earn Peanuts”
iTunes is so cheap now that you can carefully choose tracks and still work on a budget, which is good because it also teaches you how to dig and find only the music you really want.
Obviously people trying to download 100000 tracks are going to have to pay a lot more, but then you have to ask what is the point over using a streaming service and having a capsule collection of your favourites stored locally. Streaming for requests, local tracks for your own taste.
Ive been collecting music since i was 6yrs old and still own records and CDs from back then, as any music lover should, so there is a starter point for anyone who wants to be a DJ, digitise your own music.
